Debate, ki niso vezane na ostala področja...
 
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esem
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Pridružen: Ne mar 27, 2005 6:35 am
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Napisal/-a esem Ne feb 25, 2007 4:24 am

.
Berem in se čudim - smo že v 21. st, informacije so na voljo, seveda le, če je volja. Zakaj nekaj pisati brez osnovne informiranosti?


Voith je napisal/-a:ja in ekoloska katastrofa je tu.

ne rabmo odpadov ki so sestavljeni 95% iz akumulatorjev. ze tko je prevec tega sranja narobe odvrzenga.


Seveda je čas svinčenih baterij že zdavnaj mimo - v el. avtih ne bo svinčenih baterij. Npr AltairNano baterije imajo zanemarljivo malo toksičnih spojin (garantirajo predelavo izrabljenih), zdržijo pa 2 življenski dobi avta oz več deset tisoč polnjenj.


phoebus je napisal/-a:Lublančan: ne, ne boš mogel povsod polnit električnega avtomobila.
Recimo da za povprečno vožnjo rabiš 30kW v povprečju. Se voziš 2 uri na dan, torej pokuriš 60kWh.


Povprečen avto rabi za enakomerno vzdrževanje hitrosti 100 km/h okoli oz. manj kot 15 kW in ne 30 kW. Vsa ostala moč gre za pospeševanje in izgubo pri zaviranju, vendar te izgube pri el. avtih bodočnosti praktično ni zaradi regenerativnega zaviranja (polnjenja baterij med zaviranjem)! Koliko ljudi prevozi povprečno 200 km na dan? Pri mestni vožnji je seveda poraba toka še manjša - prihranek še večji.

Če hočeš ob tem kakšno številko, ti podajam podatke za SUT (Ssangyong Rexton ali en drug Ss model) z vso njegovo težo in uporom gum.

The basic specs of Phoenix's $45,000 (estimated) SUT have made an appearance or two on AutoblogGreen before, but here's the recap: 135-mile range, 0-to-60 in less than ten seconds, the 35kWh Altair Nanotechnologies NanoSafe batteries can be quick-charged in about ten minutes, and UQM's propulsion system offers over 400 ft-lbs of torque. The onboard converters will be used to power the vehicle instrumentation.

# Long battery pack life: 250,000 miles/12+ years - op. esem - v bistvu je več - to garantirajo


Torej tak velik avto porabi za 100 km cca 16 kWh el. energije.


phoebus je napisal/-a: Pri sobnih 230voltih je to 260A toka.


Napetosti bodo vsekakor višje. Mislim pa, da bi lahko bila elegantna rešitev, če bi se nek hišni ultrakondenzator polnil 24 ur in nato prenesel tok v avtomobilskega - seveda preko ustrezno debelih vodnikov. Morda je tak tudi princip polnjenja AltairNano baterij, ki se na hišno vtičnico polnijo več ur, sicer pa 10 minut.

phoebus je napisal/-a:Zagotovim kolaps omrežja če se postavi 2 taki "črpalki" s po 4 "točilnimi mesti" v ljubljani.


Saj že sedaj prihaja do kolapsov pri vsakem zagonu kakšnega velikega porabnika (tovarne). :lol: :oops: Omrežje spet ni tako občutljivo, v prihodnosti bo še manj. Ko bo potrebno, bodo pač dogradili infrastrukturo.

phoebus je napisal/-a: Fizija je pa že neskončno daleč.


Si mislil fuzijo?

phoebus je napisal/-a:Še nekaj. Bi imeli vozilo s 150kW? Izračunajte kako bi bilo s polnjenjem energijskega vira, ki bi zagotovil 2 uri delovanja tega vozila pri 70% moči :)


Dilema je popolnoma jasna - ali se bomo na globalnem nivoju odpovedali nekaterim užitkom/razvadam in posledično onesnaževanju/topli gredi/potrati omejenih virov ali pa nas oz. naših otrok in vnukov ne bo več !!!
Ker pa vlada denar, bodo neprilagodljivi določene užitke še lahko ohranili - seveda proti plačilu ogromne denarne odškodnine, ki bo šla v sanacijo posledic onesnaževanja. Tudi to bo pomagalo k nujni spremembi naših vrednot, prioritet in načina razmišljanja o naravi in nas samih.

phoebus je napisal/-a:
Niso stvari tako enostavne kot si predstavljate.




Očitno res niso.... :shock:




myster je napisal/-a:Em sm doma blizu šoštanja...gradijo nov blok na plin.Ta plin bo seveda popolnoma izgorevanje in bo veliko manj onesnaženja...novi plinski blok bo imelo eno izmed ene najboljše izkoristke na svetu...verjeli ali ne 44%.(nism prepričan-l.2008 bo začel delovati novi plinski blok ...

Kar se tiče jedrskih elektrarn-nam Avstrijci ne dovolijo...še avstrijski inšpektorji pregledujejo elektrarno v Krškem... predlog je bil da bi vetrnice na Krasu postavli...okolje varstveniki niso dovolili, ker bi ful ptic klalo :twisted:

V ljubljani se mi zdi da so kurli na rjavi premog ali celo lignin(nism zihr)...včasih je bil v LJ nepopisn smog... zdj ga iz hrvaške uvažajo črnega(in so se razmere izboljšale, ampak ker so potrebe po elektriki vsako leto večje pa tudi črni premog za silo zaleže.



To ne bo samostojen plinski blok, ampak kogeneracijskega tipa - skupaj z lignitom (in zato 44%, kar je sicer za samostojen plinski blok manj kot nič), kar pomeni, da bo lignit boljše izgoreval in manj onesnaževal.

Vetrnice na Krasu so pesek v oči. Sploh se ne gre za nekaj ptic - gre se predvsem za to, da je "vetrna" elektrika s Krasa zelo nezanesljiv in nestabilen vir in izredno draga (večkrat dražja od ostalih!). Vse je predvsem megalomanski projekt nekaterih elektro-lobijev (predvsem primorskih elektrarn s sedežem v NG), namen je pa jasen - z izgovori o obnovljivih "ekoloških" virih pridobivanja elektrike čim več zaslužiti. Razliko v ceni skromne in nezanesljive "Kraške vetrne" elektrike bomo pa bogato plačevali vsi - to je že podpisano. Povrh vsega še degradacija enega redkih naravnih okolij v Evropi! Nateg stoletja.

V Ljubljani že vrsto let kurijo zelo čist premog iz Indonezije (in ne iz Hrvaške), nekateri s tem sicer bajno služijo, dihamo pa le boljši zrak. Seveda nas ne sme zanimati degradacija okolja v Indoneziji, bog ne daj, da bi pomislili še na koga drugega kot na svojo rit.

Slovenija ima ogromne potenciale v varčevanju z el. energijo (poraba energije na ustvarjen produkt je pri nas med višjimi v svetu), vendar ne sedanja ne prejšnje vlade ne naredijo praktično nič v tej smeri - elektro-lobiji so premočni. Prihranki pa bi bili takojšnji in trajni!!



Za konec še članek iz Telegrapha o tem, da so poceni sončne celice (in s tem poceni obnovljiva el. energija) že zelo blizu. Folije iz polimerja v poljubni barvi. Excellent!


Cheap solar power poised to undercut oil and gas by half

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 11:31pm GMT 18/02/2007

Within five years, solar power will be cheap enough to compete with carbon-generated electricity, even in Britain, Scandinavia or upper Siberia. In a decade, the cost may have fallen so dramatically that solar cells could undercut oil, gas, coal and nuclear power by up to half. Technology is leaping ahead of a stale political debate about fossil fuels.

Anil Sethi, the chief executive of the Swiss start-up company Flisom, says he looks forward to the day - not so far off - when entire cities in America and Europe generate their heating, lighting and air-conditioning needs from solar films on buildings with enough left over to feed a surplus back into the grid.

The secret? Mr Sethi lovingly cradles a piece of dark polymer foil, as thin a sheet of paper. It is 200 times lighter than the normal glass-based solar materials, which require expensive substrates and roof support. Indeed, it is so light it can be stuck to the sides of buildings.
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Rather than being manufactured laboriously piece by piece, it can be mass-produced in cheap rolls like packaging - in any colour.

The "tipping point" will arrive when the capital cost of solar power falls below $1 (51p) per watt, roughly the cost of carbon power. We are not there yet. The best options today vary from $3 to $4 per watt - down from $100 in the late 1970s.

Mr Sethi believes his product will cut the cost to 80 cents per watt within five years, and 50 cents in a decade.

It is based on a CIGS (CuInGaSe2) semiconductor compound that absorbs light by freeing electrons. This is then embedded on the polymer base. It will be ready commercially in late 2009.

"It'll even work on a cold, grey, cloudy day in England, which still produces 25pc to 30pc of the optimal light level. That is enough, if you cover half the roof," he said.

"We don't need subsidies, we just need governments to get out of the way and do no harm. They've spent $170bn subsidising nuclear power over the last thirty years," he said.

His ultra-light technology, based on a copper indium compound, can power mobile phones and laptop computers with a sliver of foil.

"You won't have to get down on your knees ever again to hunt for plug socket," he said

Michael Rogol, a solar expert at Credit Lyonnais, expects the solar industry to grow from $7bn in 2004 to nearer $40bn by 2010, with operating earnings of $3bn.

The sector is poised to outstrip wind power. It is a remarkable boom for a technology long dismissed by experts as hopelessly unviable.

Mr Rogol said he was struck by the way solar use had increased dramatically in Japan and above all Germany, where Berlin's green energy law passed in 2004 forces the grid to buy surplus electricity from households at a fat premium. (In Britain, utilities may refuse to buy the surplus. They typically pay half the customer price of electricity.)

The change in Germany's law catapulted the share price of the German flagship company SolarWorld from €1.38 (67p) in February 2004 to over €60 by early 2006.

The tipping point in Germany and Japan came once households twigged that they could undercut their unloved utilities. Credit Lyonnais believes the rest of the world will soon join the stampede.

Mike Splinter, chief executive of the US semiconductor group Applied Materials, told me his company is two years away from a solar product that reaches the magic level of $1 a watt.

Cell conversion efficiency and economies of scale are galloping ahead so fast that the cost will be down to 70 US cents by 2010, with a target of 30 or 40 cents in a decade.

"We think solar power can provide 20pc of all the incremental energy needed worldwide by 2040," he said.

"This is a very powerful technology and we're seeing dramatic improvements all the time. It can be used across the entire range from small houses to big buildings and power plants," he said.

"The beauty of this is that you can use it in rural areas of India without having to lay down power lines or truck in fuel."

Villages across Asia and Africa that have never seen electricity may soon leapfrog directly into the solar age, replicating the jump to mobile phones seen in countries that never had a network of fixed lines. As a by-product, India's rural poor will stop blanketing the subcontinent with soot from tens of millions of open stoves.

Applied Materials is betting on both of the two rival solar technologies: thin film panels best used where there is plenty of room and the traditional crystalline (c-Si) wafer-based cells, which are not as cheap but produce a higher yield - better for tight spaces.

Needless to say, electricity utilities are watching the solar revolution with horror. Companies in Japan and Germany have already seen an erosion of profits because of an effect known "peak shaving". In essence, the peak wattage of solar cells overlaps with hours of peak demand and peak prices for electricity in the middle of the day, crunching margins.

As for the oil companies, they are still treating solar power as a fringe curiosity. "There is no silver bullet," said Jeroen Van der Veer, Shell's chief executive.

"We have invested a bit in all forms of renewable energy ourselves and maybe we'll find a winner one day. But the reality is that in twenty years time we'll still be using more oil than now," he said.

Might he be wrong?
 
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Nejko87
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Pridružen: Ne maj 02, 2004 9:42 pm
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Napisal/-a Nejko87 Če mar 01, 2007 12:49 am

elekro avto.. uredu. kaj pa če bi bili akumulatorji taki hot hišne plinske bombe in bi ga na pumpi enostavno zamenjal?

razmišljajte drugače.
elektriko bi lahko dobili iz strel, plime/oseke. na ta način. ne pa s čim bomo podkurili :evil:
s zastopm d štorkla prnese otroka... sam d pajk odnese avto... tega pa nam nkol zastopu....
 
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MacTron
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Pridružen: To sep 10, 2002 9:55 pm
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Napisal/-a MacTron Če mar 01, 2007 8:22 am

Elektriko ze dobis kje, ampak pomisli drugace, pol tone (500Kg) tezke baterije 6800Li-ion pa ne bos kar tako zamenjal pa tudi strosek taksnih baterij je verjetno kar velik. Po vrhu vsega pa se na vsake 200.000km menjava.
To je bilo zbrskano na tejle strani in letos ga zacnejo delati v Angliji ampak za izvoz v Ameriko.

http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/specs.php
  • skupnost | znanje | tehnika | napredek | a.com
 
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myster
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Pridružen: Pe feb 09, 2007 3:43 pm
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Napisal/-a myster Če mar 01, 2007 8:28 pm

pusti času čas :P
pustimo se presenetiti ;)
 
eg0n
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Pridružen: Po jun 11, 2012 1:47 pm

Re: električni avto

Napisal/-a eg0n Sr jan 23, 2013 9:03 pm

A ima kera zavarovalnica kak dodatni popust, če maš hibrida al če furaš elektriko? Mau preverjam opcije, kok bi pršlo, če bi si ubodu Ampero. :)
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